Thoughts on SR

[Fandango]

What do you all think of the SR system. To me it seems to be the most underdeveloped part of iRacing at the moment and It just plain stinks. To lose points for goin off or having a crash when the incident itself is punishment enough frustrates me so much... especially in an unstable car like the skip. So far since the start of the new season I havn't gained a single sr point. I do like the fact that it forces you to get faster by taking your time but at some point you have to push hard and go beyond what you know for certainty in order to improve but get it slightly wrong and your screwed.
Don't get me wrong though I think the SR system could be the best implemented system in a race sim/game anywhere, ever, if it was used for what it should be used for... to promote the safe driving of racers around other racers. There's no bloody need to punish someone for making a silly mistake that causes no harm to anyone but themselves.
And just to kick you while your down you also cop punishment for someone else's mistakes when they hit you! This is rediculous. I understand there must be great complications in ensuring the system would work so that the person at fault gets pinged and not the other way round and it'd be hard to program things so that the right person was penalised everytime but i'm sure it could be done.

I'm sick of jumping on and having a fun race up to a point, only to make a split second error and then lose postion and sr points aswell as usually lose more points because I havn't realised something like my front wings bent and come next corner around I go again.

Crap system, very flawed... needs to be fixed.

(I still really love the game though lol )

[ysu]

I don't agree with you on two points, and happy to have a good argument about it;

1) the programming of the "who's fault it is"
Well, just try to build the logic, not the code, which decides who was at fault.
What you know is each car's speed, position, and direction of travel. You also know the road surface. Ah and of course you can follow what the controls are doing in each car. (altho that probably should not be the decider...it can be honest mistake to push the loud pedal too much etc...)
Look at all kinds of situations.
- Someone fishtailing down the road, slowing down, other ramming him from behind (he thought he can get past safely without braking)
- accident ahead, on guy braking and taking evasive action, other just taking evasive, ramming the one in front
- the same but the braking guy should not have been braking there was plenty of clean space
- somone spun, other run into him
- someone spun then tries to regain in an idiotic way, you run into them
- side-by-side action, hitting other car, you just had to change direction there wasn't enough road up front
- do you need more or you'll be busy with these for a few days?


2) the SR system. I see your point, but look at it this way;
If someone can't control the car enough and takes risks beyond his ability - thus leaving the tarmac or spinning - then he's a public liability. He can ruin your race by doing this around you and ramming, knocking you off or simply spinning in front of you.
I have had huge drops to my SR too, mind you But if someone is a public safety issue, it needs to be punished.

Don't forget you can praccy pushing in the praccy sessions and test modes, it won't hurt your SR. That's what they are for.

It's a fairly mild penalty at this level, I reckon, you can get away with a lot then get it back in a couple of clean races. I think higher up it'll be much harder, but who knows.
In all-clean races I usually gain .10 or more, and to lose more than .10 you need to do some severe stuff. I've lost .17 or so in one race by doing 15 points worth of nasties, and that's a bloody lot.

[Fandango]

1) Good point... I was pretty sure someone would get some more details on that into my head. I can understand how hard it would be.

2) I'm not necessarily talking about driving beyond your own ability... more pushing beyond what you know for a fact about any particular corner. If you never try you'll never know if you can go that much faster... and yes you can figure it out in prac but if i'm mid race and suddenly start to think i might be able to push harder through certain corners I wanna be able to giv it a go. And that's just one example. Having a sudden lapse in concentration and going off would be another and I'm sure it happens a lot to a lot of people.
My gripe is that you shouldn't be punished for something that is basically already a punishment.
I really don't see people going off being a public safety issue. (A car going off and crashing through a barrier killing a little virtual man would be very sad for his virtual family... Sorry, crap joke.)
I understand that someone might go off and come back on track ruining someone elses race but it would rarely happen and if someone was intentionally taking people out by running off and then into them they'd soon lose SR points through enough races to be demoted. (It's like the guys trying to do the right thing and still improve and have fun are being punished for the would be idiots that could ruin things for others... which isn't fair in my opinion.)

Basically I do get the complications with SR points being taken off for direct contact with another racer but I totally disagree with points taken for going off and/or pranging.

[Quincy]

I relate the SR to owning my own race car. If I was racing in RL, i'd definitely NOT want to go-off or hit a fence etc. The penalty in RL would be pretty harsh, ie, hitting a wall causing $$$$ of damage etc. I believe iRacings SR system is a way to try and incorporate some degree of responsibility back into the hands of the sim-racer.

[Exar Kun]

I've practiced the Skippy a shit load. I did plenty of laps last week whilst others were running the fun races. Even last night I jumped in and did testing before each race and pushed very hard in that testing to find out where I could indeed make time.

As much as I'm whinging and bitching about the SR system at the moment, I do think it is quite good. There may come a point where I wish it were slackened up some but I do like that getting to A license will be a real achievement rather than just a given. I look forward to hopefully getting there one day and seeing what the general level of ability is like when I get there.

[Peptis]

I reckon that the SR system is one of the best things about iRacing, even in its current state.

In my experience so far, the races have been even cleaner than league racing (AAL, MNR) ever was in LFS. The SR system is making everyone a lot more cautious and driving more like they would drive a car in real life. Not only are people not contesting "iffy" passes, but they're not putting their car into positions where something might happen. I think that is the biggest difference --- I remember a lot of league races in LFS where people drove a little too aggressively and put themselves in a dangerous position where it only took a minor stuff up to cause an accident. The accident would then be put down as a "racing incident" because neither driver did anything really bad to cause the accident, but in a lot of cases, the aggressor shouldn't have put themselves into such a situation in the first place.

Almost every week it was the same people complaining about their bad luck; I reckon they should take at least some of the blame.

I think that the iRacing SR system addresses this issue really well. It encourages drivers to be a little more careful. Maybe you'll back off a little when you see someone exiting every corner sideways. Maybe you'll wait for the pass. Sure you're going to get taken out every so often, but on average, in the long run, your SR will keep improving.

To Fandango's point about losing SR for going off: Sure it's a little harsh, but I think that going off the track is an idicator of poor car control (note I said "indicator", not "definitive proof"). If someone goes off the track a lot (on average, in the long run), it says something about their driving: they're probably not the guy you want to be following around the track. If everyone drove their car like it was a real car then I think everyone would enjoy the racing a lot more.

In my opinion, it's much more fun to have a clean competitive race than it is to be posting great lap times. That, I think, is that the SR system is all about.

[Righteous]

I'm in the same boat as most people. This week the road SR has taken a fair hammering, where as I seem to get finding the oval stuff pretty easy to push really hard and not come unstuck. I think it's just the track/car combo on road at the moment. It seems every corner at the current track is just on, or over, a crest, which means the fu@#er just wants to swap ends all the time.

I agree with what Ysu said. If you want to push without consequence then do it in practice. If you try and push harder in a race than what you would normally, then you take the risk. Everyone knows the consequences so deal with it. As much as it pisses me off to cop incident point for spinning or whatever, it's a good way to bring painful consequences into having an off. Just like your team boss would have your nuts if you did something stupid in a race.

The whole, who's fault thing is the same. IRL if someone spins out in front of you and you hit them, you still cop the damage and the finances required to fix it.

Perhaps if we all thought of SR as $ that may make more sense? Dunno, just thinking as I type.

[Hazelb]

I think we saw the effect of no penalty's to the SR last week in the Week 13 racing...a complete change of mind set from drivers.

Based on that...I reckon the system works well.

Yes its crappy to loose points because some tosser cant control his car...time will tell for that bloke and he will be punished.

[DarrenM]

I had the same problem when I started racing the skippy. I just had to force myself to bring it down a notch from what I was doing in the solstice. You can't drive it as hard because things go wrong more quickly and they're harder to correct.

In a week or 2 when you're fully comfortable with the car you'll be able to start pushing harder.

if i'm mid race and suddenly start to think i might be able to push harder through certain corners I wanna be able to giv it a go.

So show some self control, do what you know you can do safely in the race, then go experiment with your new idea in practice afterwards

[c.j]

I relate the SR to owning my own race car. If I was racing in RL, i'd definitely NOT want to go-off or hit a fence etc. The penalty in RL would be pretty harsh, ie, hitting a wall causing $$$$ of damage etc. I believe iRacings SR system is a way to try and incorporate some degree of responsibility back into the hands of the sim-racer.

I think that is a pretty good way to look at it Q man...

[Sarsippius]

Not much more to add to what's been said now but I think part of this is just down to the Skippy being such a temperamental bitch. I was sweet as in the Solstice, still kept things in check but could push it that little bit all the way without too much worry. It's only now driving the Skippy all the time that I've become concerned with my SR because it can bite you so quick. I find it a little hard to believe it's actually so touchy in real life, particularly being an entry level or beginner car but then maybe it's just all that we lack in the sim compared to the real world that makes the difference

[c.j]

Not much more to add to what's been said now but I think part of this is just down to the Skippy being such a temperamental bitch. I was sweet as in the Solstice, still kept things in check but could push it that little bit all the way without too much worry. It's only now driving the Skippy all the time that I've become concerned with my SR because it can bite you so quick. I find it a little hard to believe it's actually so touchy in real life, particularly being an entry level or beginner car but then maybe it's just all that we lack in the sim compared to the real world

isnt that like formula ford or something? There are real twitchy, to teach the guys how to be smooth and fast? Like 125/250 motoGp?

[ysu]

Not much more to add to what's been said now but I think part of this is just down to the Skippy being such a temperamental bitch. I was sweet as in the Solstice, still kept things in check but could push it that little bit all the way without too much worry. It's only now driving the Skippy all the time that I've become concerned with my SR because it can bite you so quick. I find it a little hard to believe it's actually so touchy in real life, particularly being an entry level or beginner car but then maybe it's just all that we lack in the sim compared to the real world

isnt that like formula ford or something? There are real twitchy, to teach the guys how to be smooth and fast? Like 125/250 motoGp?

Almost exactly that, as far as i know. The wings are said to be mostly decoration, and as you can feel in T10 the rear wings don't do much indeed...I remember reading a post by some guy who actually raced these things IRL that it's spot on.
I think it's the track, mostly. The next one will be easier in my opinion, the one I started with last season certainly was; the jefferson course at pine peak or what.

Having said that, I've raced the mazda yesterday and today a quick test reveals that I can't keep the skippy going straight...so I'm back into the mazda

[Fandango]

I understand everyones points of view... cheers for the comments. I may be jumping the gun because I'm new in the skip and having a lot more troubles with it but at the end of the day I guess I just didn't wanna spend all week practicing getting up to %100 and missing out on racing.
The other down side I see is that it caused me to take it easy throughout my first month, which is a good thing but I found I'd jump on and barely contest positions and just drive round till my SR went up... when someone came up close behind I didn't try too hard to defend etc. cuz I wanted my SR up and it became ALL important in my racing. That's not fun to me. I wanna go racing with other racers and be on edge throughout (and quite possibly have a few offs) cuz that is fun. But I guess if I choose to treat the thing like i own it and then race on the edge and come out clean I'll be all the more happy for it.
I'm gunna take your advice Darren and take it squeezy for a while and get to know the car better... once I'm familiar I guess I won't have anything to bitch about lol!

[Exar Kun]

Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm at the point with the Skippy where I can push and the car feels very natural to me. I had a very attacking race earlier tonight where the biggest gap between me and the guy in front would have been 6 tenths of a second or so. I darted here, there and everywhere but couldn't find a way past. He drove fairly and we had a fantastic race. We were both pushing like crazy and we didn't cop any inc points. So it's certainly possible to have hard racing but I do admit you must feel very comfortable in the car.

[thornz]

Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm at the point with the Skippy where I can push and the car feels very natural to me. I had a very attacking race earlier tonight where the biggest gap between me and the guy in front would have been 6 tenths of a second or so. I darted here, there and everywhere but couldn't find a way past. He drove fairly and we had a fantastic race. We were both pushing like crazy and we didn't cop any inc points. So it's certainly possible to have hard racing but I do admit you must feel very comfortable in the car.

Yeah, I have to agree, have began to get quite comfortable with the skip, has taken a while, but now it is pretty predictable what it is going to do. Have also had some fantastic wheel to wheel, nose to tail battles, and also got no incident points. I guess at the same time there have been the odd occasion where I have touched another car, but its only a couple of points. If you are a clean racer by nature, you are going to go up in SR.

[Fandango]

I strongly feel i'm one of the more clean drivers when I'm around others. When I'm alone and poushing though... hello kitty litter my old friend... hasn't been a while

[Sarsippius]

I had a disastrous race in the Skip last night but had an incident free race tonight. The difference was last night I felt a bit too comfortable and was pushing a little too much, tonight I focused on toning it down just a notch, keeping it smooth and hitting all my markers every lap and the thing was I was basically just as quick with the lap times in the end.
I do agree with you Fandango that it can take a little of the fun out of it trying to be safe all the time but as the others have said I think it will come with time and in the end will be more like the racing you would get in the real world. As great as sim racing can be the lack of consequences does allow a slightly different brand of racing which I've also enjoyed in the past. I do like this more realistic element in iRacing though and despite getting frustrated at times it does feel good when you finish a race like I just did, even if the racing isn't as close and hotly contested.

[ysu]

It's interesting, that if I start practicing offline, I usually hit the wall a few times, spin and somesuch. I'm also slow overall due to all the mistakes.
If I do a TT or a quali instead, I'll not spin and nicely pick up speed.
After this warmup I can go offline and try to push - ending up in the wall again. Then back to a race session and with the adrenaline of the race I'm usually fairly clean now and I can run good laps consistently (good as in good for me, hehe).

So, for me the SR system adds a level of excitement...when it goes all right that is. When it does not, then it's just a frustration, and in this regard I understand anyone saying it can be tough. But it's very exciting and fun at the moment.

[Enforcer-J]

My SR won't budge! I seem to be involved in car collisons too often and probably average 2 off-tracks per race. However the majority of contact is rarely severe or results in either car going off track or spinning and the off-tracks are a result of pushing on the limit and just poppin the inside wheels over the kerb on exit. Occaisionally contact is registered and I get damage yet there was no feel through the wheel or movement on the screen that would suggest there was any! lag?
It's getting pretty frustrating as my SR seems to be moving less than .05 +/- after every race and even when I finished a race with 1 offtrack incident I only gained 0.2. I had 2 less incidents in my last race than another driver yet his SR went up and mine went down. Confusion much?

I just wanna drive the skippy already! I'm getting bored of the soltice a bit and just want some variety in my racing. I'm not interested in paying +$200 a year to drive 2 cars.... I feel I deserve to be able to race the Skippy but my SR says otherwise.

What's the best way to get my rating up short of circulating away from any competitors at 90% of my potrntial? because that just doesnt interest me!

/end rant

[flagger]

do time trials and qualifying sessions

[Sarsippius]

Well 0.2 is a lot, you'll sometimes get about 0.1 for a perfectly clean Skippy race. To be totally blunt you probably just need to pull it back a notch, that doesn't mean you can't have competitive racing, you just can't be on the limit all the time.

[Exar Kun]

Well 0.2 is a lot, you'll sometimes get about 0.1 for a perfectly clean Skippy race. To be totally blunt you probably just need to pull it back a notch, that doesn't mean you can't have competitive racing, you just can't be on the limit all the time.

Indeed. You need to drive within your limits and also give space to anticipate the issues of others. Everyone has had come through the rookie races to get to the Skippy so we're all in the same boat.

[mshagg]

I think the SR is the biggest difference between iRacing and any other sim. After all, remove the interface and the concept and you're left with close racing in cars which are difficult to drive - which is nothing new to PC sim-ers. But at no other time have I been so "scared" of running wide on a corner, any other sim and i'd push it over the other side of the kerb and hang on for deal life... in iRacing i'll slow myself down, make the corner and maybe lose a spot... definately lose some time. It's a completely different mind set. I cant believe how beneficial it has been to my driving though, if im not comfortable on a given track i simply wont race it until im ready (cororally: i'll spend lots of time practising so i AM ready to start racing a track on the first day of the week).

If that's the level of discipline they want to instil in everyone, then im a lot more confident about the near $200 ive spent thus far.

Its certainly frustrating in the short term - minding your own business and BAM, a 4x from someone you might not even be racing. But in the long term it'll be the ultimate judge. Shoot 'em all and let a norse god sort 'em out

I dont believe that being penalised for someone else's driving is unrealistic, even in F1, V8SC, Nacar, IRL, cart etc - there's more times than anyone can count where a moment of arsehattedness has ruined a 'good' driver's race. Friends i know who have participated in lower class racing joke about there's no shortage of people with more $$$ than brains/ability.

[thornz]

******Warning rant*************

While I love the idea of the SR, it has brought some of the cleanest racing to my pc I have ever had. I do wonder if perhaps its also going to cause issues for people trying to advance. While in theory it is all good that if you cant keep your SR up, you cant race the next step up. Which is just like in real life, if your crap driver your never going to make it up to high levels of motor sport. As you go up in license it gets harder to improve you SR, but easier to destroy it. The problem is, unless you have lots of people advancing through the licenses, you are gonna find that its harder and harder to find people to race with. As a few people on here have been saying, that they are struggling to get there licenses up in the rookie series, what chance are they going to have at racing through to the Mazda or radicals (this is not a dig at them), I know from a couple of qually sessions how much of a bitch the Mazda is, and for that series is going to be hard to keep a high SR, even just a few errors throughout the 45min race is gonna hit your SR. This means that as each license upgrades come around, people are going to be culled, which again is how it works in the real world. But then you have the issue of what are these people going to do, keep racing, or toss it in? I know that if I cant get up to racing the radicals, or whatever cars are coming after that, I would be thinking twice about continuing onward, paying my money to not be able to race what I want to race is not my idea of value for money. I guess really, I am wondering how fresh the game will stay, if you cant keep on progressing, and are stuck racing the same cars and tracks because your not good enough? I know if I got stuck in the skippy, as much fun as it is, it would soon become boring if its the highest class car you can race.

One way to overcome these issues is to be able to have private leagues, which initially I was against, but the more I think about it, the more I feel it is necessary if iRacing wants to retain the drivers whoa are not the best, and cant get up to racing the A class cars, but still desire to race them. And I also think there is room to have pickup races, that don't effect your SR for spins, hitting barriers etc, but perhaps still have a watered down version for contact with other cars to help keep the racing clean. I think they would be worthwhile as even the Mazda races are 45minutes long or so, which is ideal for a championship race, but if you just want to jump on and have some fun, I know I cant be fucked doing a 45 min race every time I want to race. I love iRacing, and think its is the best thing to happen to our beloved world of sim racing, but theres a few things that have me worried as pointed out above. I realise that this is ongoing development, and I'm sure that they have already thought of the points I have raised, and hopefuly have solutions for.

**********End rant**************

So yeah, what are your opinions on this? I am not the best stringing long winded shit like this together (taken me about 30mins lol), but hopefuly I have managed to get across the general gist of it.